[OT] about scalability, experiences, demands

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[OT] about scalability, experiences, demands

Henning Westerholt
Hello all,

recently some statement came to my attention that "there is a common consent
that the current design/architecture of [..] OpenSER (inherited from SER) is
no longer able to deliver and to meet the present requirements and demands".

I don't want to argue that much about this opinion, in fact the demands to a
Voice over IP solution depends very much on the certain setup. But i want to
share some details from my experiences in developing and operating a big VoIP
infrastructure here at 1&1.

We've about 2 million customers on our platform, that uses over 5 million
individual numbers and terminate about 1 billion minutes per month. We're
able to provide a good service with the actual architecture of OpenSER
without any real problems. Of course there is always some room for
improvements, but so far the main challenges we faced were not in the
scalability or performance areas. More important issues are e.g. the inherent
complexity of the SIP protocol and the maintainance of a good quality
assurance and integration process.

We started some years ago with OpenSER 0.9.5, which we then extended a lot in
house. For example we implemented more than 25 own modules, a own path
implementation, did a lot of bug fixing and workarounds for certain problems
we've found. We're able to reduce this amount of proprietary code a lot in
the past, because of progress in the OpenSER development, intregration of
our "key" modules and a lot of other contributions. We're using now something
between OpenSER 1.3 and Kamailio 1.4 with only a few private extensions.

So in my opinion the actual design of our server is not "[..] an inevitable
dead-end that needs to be avoided.". I rather think that we'll be able with
continuing improvements to tackle the upcoming challenges well, especially as
we will work together in the future with the SER developers in improving
important areas of this software.

But this is just my personal opinion, everybody is of course free to have
their own position.

With best regards,

Henning Westerholt

--
Henning Westerholt - Development Consumer Products / DSL Core
1&1 Internet AG, Ernst-Frey-Str. 9, 76135 Karlsruhe, Germany

Vorstände: Henning Ahlert, Ralph Dommermuth, Matthias Ehrlich, Thomas
Gottschlich, Robert Hoffmann, Markus Huhn, Hans-Henning Kettler,
Dr. Oliver Mauss, Jan Oetjen - Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Michael Scheeren
Amtsgericht Montabaur / HRB 6484

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Re: [OT] about scalability, experiences, demands

Adrian Georgescu
From a customer point of view is great that you are satisfied with the software. 

Myself as a platform vendor having to satisfy the needs of multiple customers I can only concur with Bogdan that the curent design has flaws inherited from the original requirements and fixing them one by one by developing or improving modules to navigate around them is not the most efficient way forward.

A consistent core with a generic API to a higher level application that does not depend much on the core version and where a programming language chosen by the customer can be used is much more future proof then patching endlessly the existing code with lose modules and having to rewrite the configuration with every major version upgrade.

Having two projects and two ways to achieve the same goals may help the customers in the future.

Adrian

On Nov 14, 2008, at 2:59 PM, Henning Westerholt wrote:

Hello all,

recently some statement came to my attention that "there is a common consent
that the current design/architecture of [..] OpenSER (inherited from SER) is
no longer able to deliver and to meet the present requirements and demands".

I don't want to argue that much about this opinion, in fact the demands to a
Voice over IP solution depends very much on the certain setup. But i want to
share some details from my experiences in developing and operating a big VoIP
infrastructure here at 1&1.

We've about 2 million customers on our platform, that uses over 5 million
individual numbers and terminate about 1 billion minutes per month. We're
able to provide a good service with the actual architecture of OpenSER
without any real problems. Of course there is always some room for
improvements, but so far the main challenges we faced were not in the
scalability or performance areas. More important issues are e.g. the inherent
complexity of the SIP protocol and the maintainance of a good quality
assurance and integration process.

We started some years ago with OpenSER 0.9.5, which we then extended a lot in
house. For example we implemented more than 25 own modules, a own path
implementation, did a lot of bug fixing and workarounds for certain problems
we've found. We're able to reduce this amount of proprietary code a lot in
the past, because of progress in the OpenSER development, intregration of
our "key" modules and a lot of other contributions. We're using now something
between OpenSER 1.3 and Kamailio 1.4 with only a few private extensions.

So in my opinion the actual design of our server is not "[..] an inevitable
dead-end that needs to be avoided.". I rather think that we'll be able with
continuing improvements to tackle the upcoming challenges well, especially as
we will work together in the future with the SER developers in improving
important areas of this software.

But this is just my personal opinion, everybody is of course free to have
their own position.

With best regards,

Henning Westerholt

--
Henning Westerholt - Development Consumer Products / DSL Core
1&1 Internet AG, Ernst-Frey-Str. 9, 76135 Karlsruhe, Germany

Vorstände: Henning Ahlert, Ralph Dommermuth, Matthias Ehrlich, Thomas
Gottschlich, Robert Hoffmann, Markus Huhn, Hans-Henning Kettler,
Dr. Oliver Mauss, Jan Oetjen - Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Michael Scheeren
Amtsgericht Montabaur / HRB 6484

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Re: [OT] about scalability, experiences, demands

Dan Pascu
In reply to this post by Henning Westerholt

I fail to see what worries you if all is fine and dandy in paradise. Don't
mind us, we are just a bunch of loonies with weird ideas anyway.

On Friday 14 November 2008, Henning Westerholt wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> recently some statement came to my attention that "there is a common
> consent that the current design/architecture of [..] OpenSER (inherited
> from SER) is no longer able to deliver and to meet the present
> requirements and demands".
>
> I don't want to argue that much about this opinion, in fact the demands
> to a Voice over IP solution depends very much on the certain setup. But
> i want to share some details from my experiences in developing and
> operating a big VoIP infrastructure here at 1&1.
>
> We've about 2 million customers on our platform, that uses over 5
> million individual numbers and terminate about 1 billion minutes per
> month. We're able to provide a good service with the actual
> architecture of OpenSER without any real problems. Of course there is
> always some room for improvements, but so far the main challenges we
> faced were not in the scalability or performance areas. More important
> issues are e.g. the inherent complexity of the SIP protocol and the
> maintainance of a good quality assurance and integration process.
>
> We started some years ago with OpenSER 0.9.5, which we then extended a
> lot in house. For example we implemented more than 25 own modules, a
> own path implementation, did a lot of bug fixing and workarounds for
> certain problems we've found. We're able to reduce this amount of
> proprietary code a lot in the past, because of progress in the OpenSER
> development, intregration of our "key" modules and a lot of other
> contributions. We're using now something between OpenSER 1.3 and
> Kamailio 1.4 with only a few private extensions.
>
> So in my opinion the actual design of our server is not "[..] an
> inevitable dead-end that needs to be avoided.". I rather think that
> we'll be able with continuing improvements to tackle the upcoming
> challenges well, especially as we will work together in the future with
> the SER developers in improving important areas of this software.
>
> But this is just my personal opinion, everybody is of course free to
> have their own position.
>
> With best regards,
>
> Henning Westerholt



--
Dan

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Re: [OT] about scalability, experiences, demands

Alex G-2
well put dan! I really don't understand why you would bother bringing this to our attention at all Henning.

On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 11:12 PM, Dan Pascu <[hidden email]> wrote:

I fail to see what worries you if all is fine and dandy in paradise. Don't
mind us, we are just a bunch of loonies with weird ideas anyway.

On Friday 14 November 2008, Henning Westerholt wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> recently some statement came to my attention that "there is a common
> consent that the current design/architecture of [..] OpenSER (inherited
> from SER) is no longer able to deliver and to meet the present
> requirements and demands".
>
> I don't want to argue that much about this opinion, in fact the demands
> to a Voice over IP solution depends very much on the certain setup. But
> i want to share some details from my experiences in developing and
> operating a big VoIP infrastructure here at 1&1.
>
> We've about 2 million customers on our platform, that uses over 5
> million individual numbers and terminate about 1 billion minutes per
> month. We're able to provide a good service with the actual
> architecture of OpenSER without any real problems. Of course there is
> always some room for improvements, but so far the main challenges we
> faced were not in the scalability or performance areas. More important
> issues are e.g. the inherent complexity of the SIP protocol and the
> maintainance of a good quality assurance and integration process.
>
> We started some years ago with OpenSER 0.9.5, which we then extended a
> lot in house. For example we implemented more than 25 own modules, a
> own path implementation, did a lot of bug fixing and workarounds for
> certain problems we've found. We're able to reduce this amount of
> proprietary code a lot in the past, because of progress in the OpenSER
> development, intregration of our "key" modules and a lot of other
> contributions. We're using now something between OpenSER 1.3 and
> Kamailio 1.4 with only a few private extensions.
>
> So in my opinion the actual design of our server is not "[..] an
> inevitable dead-end that needs to be avoided.". I rather think that
> we'll be able with continuing improvements to tackle the upcoming
> challenges well, especially as we will work together in the future with
> the SER developers in improving important areas of this software.
>
> But this is just my personal opinion, everybody is of course free to
> have their own position.
>
> With best regards,
>
> Henning Westerholt



--
Dan

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