OpenSIPS at Amoocon (former AsteriskTag)

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OpenSIPS at Amoocon (former AsteriskTag)

Bogdan-Andrei Iancu
Hi,

In behalf of OpenSIPS project, I submitted several papers for the
Amoocon (Former AsteriskTag) on May 4th - 5th, 2009 - See
http://www.amoocon.de/

Covered topics are : Load-balancing (using the new load-balancer module)
, Presence (deploy presence) and clustering (OpenSIPS + PBX integration):

(1) Load balancing Workshop:
     http://www.amoocon.de/talks/8

(2) Delivering Presence to end-users:
     http://www.amoocon.de/talks/46

(3) OpenSIPS + Yate integration (unified clustering):
     http://www.amoocon.de/talks/47


So, for who ever participate to the Amoocon, feel free to join.

Regards,
Bogdan

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Re: [OpenSIPS-Devel] OpenSIPS at Amoocon (former AsteriskTag)

Bogdan-Andrei Iancu
Reminder : 1 week to Amoocon :)

Bogdan-Andrei Iancu wrote:

> Hi,
>
> In behalf of OpenSIPS project, I submitted several papers for the
> Amoocon (Former AsteriskTag) on May 4th - 5th, 2009 - See
> http://www.amoocon.de/
>
> Covered topics are : Load-balancing (using the new load-balancer module)
> , Presence (deploy presence) and clustering (OpenSIPS + PBX integration):
>
> (1) Load balancing Workshop:
>      http://www.amoocon.de/talks/8
>
> (2) Delivering Presence to end-users:
>      http://www.amoocon.de/talks/46
>
> (3) OpenSIPS + Yate integration (unified clustering):
>      http://www.amoocon.de/talks/47
>
>
> So, for who ever participate to the Amoocon, feel free to join.
>
> Regards,
> Bogdan
>
> _______________________________________________
> Devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.opensips.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel
>
>  


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Re: [OpenSIPS-Business] [OpenSIPS-Devel] OpenSIPS at Amoocon (former AsteriskTag)

Bogdan-Andrei Iancu
Hi,

The Amoocon conference ended !

The presentations were uploaded on the OpenSIPS web site, so you can
browse them at :
          http://www.opensips.org/Events/Amoocon2009

Regards,
Bogdan

Bogdan-Andrei Iancu wrote:

> Reminder : 1 week to Amoocon :)
>
> Bogdan-Andrei Iancu wrote:
>  
>> Hi,
>>
>> In behalf of OpenSIPS project, I submitted several papers for the
>> Amoocon (Former AsteriskTag) on May 4th - 5th, 2009 - See
>> http://www.amoocon.de/
>>
>> Covered topics are : Load-balancing (using the new load-balancer module)
>> , Presence (deploy presence) and clustering (OpenSIPS + PBX integration):
>>
>> (1) Load balancing Workshop:
>>      http://www.amoocon.de/talks/8
>>
>> (2) Delivering Presence to end-users:
>>      http://www.amoocon.de/talks/46
>>
>> (3) OpenSIPS + Yate integration (unified clustering):
>>      http://www.amoocon.de/talks/47
>>
>>
>> So, for who ever participate to the Amoocon, feel free to join.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bogdan
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.opensips.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel
>>
>>  
>>    
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Business mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.opensips.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/business
>
>  


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LB Re: [OpenSIPS-Business] [OpenSIPS-Devel] OpenSIPS at Amoocon (former AsteriskTag)

Stefan Sayer
Hi Bogdan,

o Bogdan-Andrei Iancu [05/07/09 11:01]:
> Hi,
>
> The Amoocon conference ended !
>
> The presentations were uploaded on the OpenSIPS web site, so you can
> browse them at :
>           http://www.opensips.org/Events/Amoocon2009

 >...
>>> Covered topics are : Load-balancing (using the new load-balancer module)
>>> , Presence (deploy presence) and clustering (OpenSIPS + PBX integration):
>>>
>>> (1) Load balancing Workshop:
>>>      http://www.amoocon.de/talks/8

I must say I have not looked into the code but only at
http://www.opensips.org/pub/events/2009-05-04_Amoocon_Rostock/OpenSIPS_LoadBalancing.pdf
but I am not convinced: For load balancing that could be done
statelessly wrt SIP dialog you are keeping dialog state at the LB.

If you have control over the media servers (as you do with
freeswitch/asterisk/yate you mentioned) the same could be achieved much
simpler by periodically reporting current load (e.g. in extra header to
OPTIONS response or any other SIP message) from the media servers to LB
and keeping that information as soft state there.

If you need dialog state in some proxy anyway for other purposes of
course you have that information, but for a dedicated LB like on p12 I
doubt it makes sense.

Stefan

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Re: LB Re: [OpenSIPS-Business] [OpenSIPS-Devel] OpenSIPS at Amoocon (former AsteriskTag)

Stefan Sayer
Hi again,

o Stefan Sayer [05/07/09 13:33]:

> Hi Bogdan,
>
> o Bogdan-Andrei Iancu [05/07/09 11:01]:
>> Hi,
>>
>> The Amoocon conference ended !
>>
>> The presentations were uploaded on the OpenSIPS web site, so you can
>> browse them at :
>>           http://www.opensips.org/Events/Amoocon2009
>
>  >...
>>>> Covered topics are : Load-balancing (using the new load-balancer module)
>>>> , Presence (deploy presence) and clustering (OpenSIPS + PBX integration):
>>>>
>>>> (1) Load balancing Workshop:
>>>>      http://www.amoocon.de/talks/8
>
> I must say I have not looked into the code but only at
> http://www.opensips.org/pub/events/2009-05-04_Amoocon_Rostock/OpenSIPS_LoadBalancing.pdf
> but I am not convinced: For load balancing that could be done
> statelessly wrt SIP dialog you are keeping dialog state at the LB.
>
> If you have control over the media servers (as you do with
> freeswitch/asterisk/yate you mentioned) the same could be achieved much
> simpler by periodically reporting current load (e.g. in extra header to
> OPTIONS response or any other SIP message) from the media servers to LB
> and keeping that information as soft state there.
>
sorry this sounds so negative which it wasn't meant to be... rather I
was  wondering about whether load_balancer module could be used in
another mode without dialog with alternate source of load information.

Stefan


>
> Stefan
>

--
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VoIP Services

[hidden email]
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IPTEGO GmbH
Wittenbergplatz 1
10789 Berlin
Germany

Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 101010
Geschaeftsfuehrer: Alexander Hoffmann

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Re: LB Re: [OpenSIPS-Business] [OpenSIPS-Devel] OpenSIPS at Amoocon (former AsteriskTag)

Uwe Kastens
In reply to this post by Stefan Sayer
Hi,

>>>> (1) Load balancing Workshop:
>>>>      http://www.amoocon.de/talks/8
>
> I must say I have not looked into the code but only at
> http://www.opensips.org/pub/events/2009-05-04_Amoocon_Rostock/OpenSIPS_LoadBalancing.pdf
> but I am not convinced: For load balancing that could be done
> statelessly wrt SIP dialog you are keeping dialog state at the LB.
>
> If you have control over the media servers (as you do with
> freeswitch/asterisk/yate you mentioned) the same could be achieved much
> simpler by periodically reporting current load (e.g. in extra header to
> OPTIONS response or any other SIP message) from the media servers to LB
> and keeping that information as soft state there.
>
Maybe one should be able to configure this - on ressource basis.

If you have a dump PSTN-GW (commercial soft-switch) which is not able to
give you the information back, the LB have to control the load. On the
other hand, if you can get the information from asterisk, yate etc.pp.
the LB modul should use this information.

BR

Uwe


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Re: LB Re: [OpenSIPS-Business] [OpenSIPS-Devel] OpenSIPS at Amoocon (former AsteriskTag)

Iñaki Baz Castillo
In reply to this post by Stefan Sayer
2009/5/7 Stefan Sayer <[hidden email]>:
> I must say I have not looked into the code but only at
> http://www.opensips.org/pub/events/2009-05-04_Amoocon_Rostock/OpenSIPS_LoadBalancing.pdf
> but I am not convinced: For load balancing that could be done
> statelessly wrt SIP dialog you are keeping dialog state at the LB.

Do you mean:
a) Transaction statelessy
b) Transaction statefull (but not dialog aware)
c) Dialog aware (so also transaction stateful)
?

With load_balancer it seems that option "c" (dialog aware) is
required, but I don't understand if you suggest option "a" or "b". I
understand that option "b" (transaction stateful) is required in order
to do failover (if server 1 fails route the request to server 2).

--
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<[hidden email]>

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Re: LB Re: [OpenSIPS-Business] [OpenSIPS-Devel] OpenSIPS at Amoocon (former AsteriskTag)

Bogdan-Andrei Iancu
In reply to this post by Stefan Sayer
Hi Stefan,

Stefan Sayer wrote:

>>>> Covered topics are : Load-balancing (using the new load-balancer
>>>> module) , Presence (deploy presence) and clustering (OpenSIPS + PBX
>>>> integration):
>>>>
>>>> (1) Load balancing Workshop:
>>>>      http://www.amoocon.de/talks/8
>
> I must say I have not looked into the code but only at
> http://www.opensips.org/pub/events/2009-05-04_Amoocon_Rostock/OpenSIPS_LoadBalancing.pdf 
>
> but I am not convinced: For load balancing that could be done
> statelessly wrt SIP dialog you are keeping dialog state at the LB.
>
> If you have control over the media servers (as you do with
> freeswitch/asterisk/yate you mentioned) the same could be achieved
> much simpler by periodically reporting current load (e.g. in extra
> header to OPTIONS response or any other SIP message) from the media
> servers to LB and keeping that information as soft state there.
Well, the original design wanted to cover all the possible cases and not
to depend on special capabilities of the peers. So, we took into the
consideration that the peers you are load balancing may be "dummy" peers
and not able to provide any kind of information about the load...or
maybe (because of network, access or security pov), the peers cannot
report the load to you (as example, you may do LB to some phones or GWs
with no load reporting support or you do LB over some peers you do not
control (like termination GWs) and they cannot report to you).

So, we tried the generic approach of being a self-sufficient system. But
you say make perfect sense. This module is a new one and now we start
testing its functionality under different scenarios. During the
presentation, I got good feedback on other things to add, like
integration with bandwidth reservation and limitation for QOS purposes
(getting reports about jitter , delays and so on from the media servers).

Also what you say it may be an useful add-on - to get the load number
from the peers, instead of calculating it.

>
> If you need dialog state in some proxy anyway for other purposes of
> course you have that information, but for a dedicated LB like on p12 I
> doubt it makes sense.
Correct - the diagram is more from functionality pov and not ncessery
servers/instances - during the presentation I did mentioned that in that
case the Proxy and LB could be actually the same opensips instance. Hope
that Stefan will publish the video recordings of the presentations :)

Regards,
Bogdan

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Re: LB Re: [OpenSIPS-Business] [OpenSIPS-Devel] OpenSIPS at Amoocon (former AsteriskTag)

Bogdan-Andrei Iancu
In reply to this post by Stefan Sayer
Hi Stefan,

Stefan Sayer wrote:

> Hi again,
>
>>>>> Covered topics are : Load-balancing (using the new load-balancer
>>>>> module) , Presence (deploy presence) and clustering (OpenSIPS +
>>>>> PBX integration):
>>>>>
>>>>> (1) Load balancing Workshop:
>>>>>      http://www.amoocon.de/talks/8
>>
>> I must say I have not looked into the code but only at
>> http://www.opensips.org/pub/events/2009-05-04_Amoocon_Rostock/OpenSIPS_LoadBalancing.pdf 
>>
>> but I am not convinced: For load balancing that could be done
>> statelessly wrt SIP dialog you are keeping dialog state at the LB.
>>
>> If you have control over the media servers (as you do with
>> freeswitch/asterisk/yate you mentioned) the same could be achieved
>> much simpler by periodically reporting current load (e.g. in extra
>> header to OPTIONS response or any other SIP message) from the media
>> servers to LB and keeping that information as soft state there.
>>
> sorry this sounds so negative which it wasn't meant to be... rather I
> was  wondering about whether load_balancer module could be used in
> another mode without dialog with alternate source of load information.

I got your point :) and as said in the prev email, it make perfect sense
what you say - see my comments in that email.

Regards,
Bogdan


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Re: LB Re: [OpenSIPS-Business] [OpenSIPS-Devel] OpenSIPS at Amoocon (former AsteriskTag)

Stefan Sayer
In reply to this post by Iñaki Baz Castillo


o Iñaki Baz Castillo [05/07/09 15:31]:

> 2009/5/7 Stefan Sayer <[hidden email]>:
>> I must say I have not looked into the code but only at
>> http://www.opensips.org/pub/events/2009-05-04_Amoocon_Rostock/OpenSIPS_LoadBalancing.pdf
>> but I am not convinced: For load balancing that could be done
>> statelessly wrt SIP dialog you are keeping dialog state at the LB.
>
> Do you mean:
> a) Transaction statelessy
> b) Transaction statefull (but not dialog aware)
> c) Dialog aware (so also transaction stateful)
> ?
>
> With load_balancer it seems that option "c" (dialog aware) is
> required, but I don't understand if you suggest option "a" or "b". I
> understand that option "b" (transaction stateful) is required in order
> to do failover (if server 1 fails route the request to server 2).
>

at the risk of writing the obvious here, "statelessly wrt SIP dialog"
(i.e. a or b) because dialog state is much more long lived than
transaction state, and in many cases impact of a failed transaction
(because transaction statetul proxy crashed and failover one does not
have it) may be not fatal for the call due to retries, while lost dialog
state at the dialog aware proxy probably means lost call e.g. when the
next session timer reinvite comes (true or not for load_balancer with
dialog module?). so it would be the most important to not have to
maintain and sync dialog state at too many places. whether proxy is
transaction stateful or completely stateless is yet another question,
but transaction statefull is usually the way its done.

Stefan

--
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IPTEGO GmbH
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10789 Berlin
Germany

Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 101010
Geschaeftsfuehrer: Alexander Hoffmann

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Re: LB Re: [OpenSIPS-Business] [OpenSIPS-Devel] OpenSIPS at Amoocon (former AsteriskTag)

Iñaki Baz Castillo
El Jueves, 7 de Mayo de 2009, Stefan Sayer escribió:

> at the risk of writing the obvious here, "statelessly wrt SIP dialog"
> (i.e. a or b) because dialog state is much more long lived than
> transaction state, and in many cases impact of a failed transaction
> (because transaction statetul proxy crashed and failover one does not
> have it) may be not fatal for the call due to retries, while lost dialog
> state at the dialog aware proxy probably means lost call e.g. when the
> next session timer reinvite comes (true or not for load_balancer with
> dialog module?). so it would be the most important to not have to
> maintain and sync dialog state at too many places. whether proxy is
> transaction stateful or completely stateless is yet another question,
> but transaction statefull is usually the way its done.

Sure I agree with you. Having to mantain the dialog state in a proxy for load-
balancing sounds not very "natural" for me.

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